How Soon Is Too Soon? Redux

The comments and reaction to my “how soon is too soon to sleep with someone?” post have been pretty interesting, and I have felt like reposting some of it here and responding with some more thoughts regarding the issue and some of the comments.

The Promo Homo said:
If I was out on a date and the girl wanted to sleep with me on the first date, I would think she just wanted a hook up and didn’t want anything serious.

Granted, I know her very well and I was completely unsurprised that this comment came from her, and we have talked about it and she knows how I feel about it in the context of her personality and views and life. However, responding to it strictly as a comment, I don’t understand how sex on a first date equals casual. Sex is a fairly serious step, and most of the time, you have to really like the person in order to have it. Why is it a sign of someone who doesn’t want anything serious, and not a sign of the person really liking you? A confirmation that the date went well and the person can’t get enough of you? Why is “delayed gratification” (as Promo Homo called it) necessary? Isn’t that like torture? Oh, maybe that is just me.

Molls actually wrote an entire post responding to mine here; these are just selected excerpts from that post:
Men will complain about not getting any action from chicks. About how women manipulate them with sex. And then, they put contingencies on the relationship when we do put out… I imposed a “no sex on the first date” rule. Both to prevent myself from giving guys the impression I just want to fuck AND to allow myself to get to know him a little bit better, thus ensuring the sex will be good… To answer the question, I don’t think any time is too soon. If you’re the type of guy who equates sex on the first date with non-serious relationships, then you’re probably not the type of guy I’d want to be in a serious relationship with.

See, but there is a contradiction there. “I imposed a ‘no sex on the first date’ rule… to prevent myself from giving guys the impression I just want to fuck,” but then she continues on to say “If you’re the type of guy who equates sex on the first date with non-serious relationships, then you’re probably not the type of guy I’d want to be in a serious relationship with.”  If that is the case, then why the rule? And again, if no time is too soon, why the rule? And why the hell should it matter what date the fucking occurs on? If I like you, and we had a good date, and I want to fuck you, there shouldn’t be “rules” or assumptions to stop me.

M.A.D. said a lot, and feel free to read his comment in full on the original post. I am just picking out certain parts and responding to them:
It matters because it changes the way that a relationship is perceived.

Some men are just hunters. They see a woman, they regard her as a challenge. “Hmm. Can I get into her knickers? I wonder. Let’s see…?” Those guys will lose interest after the first time you have sex, or possibly after the first few times, anyway. There is nothing that will change that.

Okay, and I am not referring to something that is simply casual sex. And I could lose interest in them after having sex a few times, too. If men are “hunters” just looking to get laid, they usually won’t take the effort of taking someone out or courting them to get into their pants. They will take the easy out and hook up with a drunk girl from a bar or something like that. 

To many men, having sex is simply “something that two people can do together that is quite fun”. A bit like having dinner together, giving a neck rub or scratching someone else’s itch. Something that CAN be done in a loving way with a soul mate, but that in NO way has to be.

Right. And many women feel the same way, too. I’m not saying that I want to date every person that I fuck, because that would be completely unrealistic and also, a total lie. But if you actually like the person that you are fucking and would like to get to know them on a deeper level and possibly develop a relationship with them, what would stop you? Why couldn’t you? You don’t have to try to develop a relationship with every person that you fuck, and in my case (because I do have casual sex), I shouldn’t. And couldn’t. But why does having sex with someone too soon have to mean that there is no relationship potential?

Many other men, however, are genuinely interested in finding someone to go out with and do interesting things with. For such men, having sex can actually get in the way. You go out or hang out with someone, it’s fun, it’s spontaneous and – most importantly, it’s voluntary. But, if you sleep with her, then suddenly, it’s changed. It’s no longer voluntary because, suddenly, you’re in “a relationship”.

Now, for Joe Average who wakes up the morning after the night before and finds himself suddenly in “a relationship”, his first reaction is going to be “Whoa! Shit! How did that happen?” But then, after the initial surge of panic has worn off, he will start to weigh up the pros and cons. He will asses the fun that you have had together (and the potential fun that you might have together) and weigh that against the “sacrifice” of being in “a relationship”.

If you have been out with him a few times and he has gotten used to enjoying his company, then the pros will outweigh the cons. If you sleep with him too soon, he will not have gotten into the “habit” of being with you, and the cons will outweigh the pros and he will vanish like morning mist.

This makes no sense to me. Maybe I am not understanding the point. How does sex automatically equal “relationship”? I thought we said that the two did not equal each other? If a guy wakes up next to me, I don’t know how it is that he will assume that we are “together.” We fucked, and maybe, if we like each other, we can hang out again and continue to get to know each other. For me, sex is just part of the process of getting to know someone. And I would never assume that fucking someone once means that we are in a relationship. At all. 
And what is this “habit” of being with me? Why do I have to become a habit before I sleep with him? Does anyone else understand his point a little better and can possibly enlighten me? Or M.A.D. come explain yourself a little better?
What do you guys think of the points that were made? Agree? Disagree?
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  1. Britni TheVadgeWig
    Posted September 8, 2008 at 2:29 am | Permalink

    Okay, and all of this makes sense. But what if you sleep with someone on the first date and want to develop a serious relationship with that person? No other suitors, deep connection, whole deal. Did I ruin that chance by sleeping with you on the first date?

  2. Molls
    Posted September 8, 2008 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    You cut out the middle part of my post where I talk about how I've changed as a person, grown up, and now no longer give a shit about sex on the first date. Which is why I ended with answering the question the way I did.

  3. The Bizza
    Posted September 8, 2008 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    "Okay, and all of this makes sense. But what if you sleep with someone on the first date and want to develop a serious relationship with that person? No other suitors, deep connection, whole deal. Did I ruin that chance by sleeping with you on the first date?"

    Regardless of how progressive we are, we must admit that sex, regardless of when it happens, irrevocably changes the dynamic of a relationship. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is an inevitable truth. we can try fooling ourselves with a cavalier attitude, but the fact is, sex changes the tenure of a relationship — either for the good or the bad — but things will most certainly change between the participants.

    Don't even argue with me on this one… it is inevitable.

    Now, back to your question… no, you would not have ruined the chance for a serious relationship with me, but that is more contingent on timing than 1st date nookie. We'd have to both be in a similar place mentally… and romance is all but impossible to predict.

    If we both want more from the relationship at the same time, then the situation will evolve fluidly and will feel effortless and exhilarating.

    But this is lightening in a bottle. it's theoretically possible (happened to me) but good luck having all the stars align (i also crashed and burned in a previous similar relationship because my casual friend did not share my enthusiasm).

    After sex on a 1st date, if your feelings of connection are deeper than mine, and you communicate wanting more from me than just a romp, I will most likely panic and begin screening your calls and getting some distance between us.

    If our roles are reversed, my desire for more from you may be interpreted by you as pressure or an ultimatum to commit, throwing a monkeywrench into our fun.

    And this is the only logical argument against sex on the 1st date with someone you want to develop a serious relationship with. It's risky to your emotional well-being… not because of imposed social norms (though they don't help) but breaking it down to its most base elements, no matter how well our night goes, it is impossible for you to predict if I'm as into you as you are into me.

    I'm not denouncing sex on a first date. Having had sex on a 1st date frequently, it would be hypocritical of me to denounce it. Besides, I believe in infinite possibilities in infinite combinations. I'm just saying that reading the tea-leaves and non-verbal cues can be trickier once we've already taken a romp.

  4. Britni TheVadgeWig
    Posted September 8, 2008 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Yes, M.A.D. this makes a lot more sense. Regarding your statement that many girl attach some sort of emotion to sex and are less able to have casual sex than men, I have a theory on that.

    See, when men have sex, they are just sticking it in somewhere. When women have sex, they are actually allowing someone to be inside of them. I think that this can make a huge difference in regards to the emotional aspect of sex for women.

    I'm not saying that men don't attach emotion to sex, especially in relationships. I'm just referring to the fact that it seems like women have a harder time separating sex and emotion.

    And Molls: regardless of that piece being omitted (and I did read the whole post, obvi), I felt like the contradiction was there just the same. You may have grown up and matured and that may be why you no longer feel the need to have sex on the first date, but my point was kind of a different one. It was more a general, sweeping statement about societal expectations and the fact that a "rule" like that is even needed/warranted/put in place.

  5. The Promo Homo
    Posted September 9, 2008 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    I like how I'm coming off as the old fashioned prude in the post when I'm pretty sure I'm the gayest thing on two legs*….

    … or the gayest thing in-between two legs. ;)


    *which, apparently, gay, old fashioned, and having worked at adult stores… don't mix. Who knew?

  6. Britni TheVadgeWig
    Posted September 9, 2008 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Aw, nooo. You just have morals I will never understand :)

    And I love and respect you for it.

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