It’s no secret that I have some readers that disagree with the assertion that “all men are potential rapists.” I’ve explained my point in every way that I know how, but somehow, I still feel as though I’m failing to really articulate it, and not just because not everyone is agreeing with me. It’s a hard point to explain to people that really don’t understand, but are trying to, the reasoning behind the thinking. I’ve recently discovered Hugo Schwyzer’s blog, and he is brilliant. He’s a heterosexual male that works to teach men about consent and rape culture. His perspective is great, and considering it’s a male one, I thought I would post some his explanations for why it’s so offensive when men try to argue the “potential rapist” line of thinking.
In the comments of my last post, Champagne and Benzedrine posted the following:
I commend what you’re trying to achieve, but I think you’re fighting to defend certain positions that are indefensible and undermining everything you’re trying to achieve in doing so.Case in point? Men, such as myself, are concentrating on you defending your ‘Today I’m Angry’ post and IGNORING the paragraphs and paragraphs you wrote about rape culture.
Fact: Not all men are, or have the capacity to be, rapists. And we take GREAT offence at the insinuation that this isn’t the case.
No mater how earnest I am about my feminism and my boundaries and my transformation, the reality is that regardless of who I might be on the inside, I still come across as “a man”. And in the inescapable math of rape culture, man=threat…The faux pro-feminist corollary is trying to prove to as many women as possible that you, their male feminist friend, are somehow different from all the other guys… While hardly predatory, there’s still something problematic about this kind of “safe seduction” behavior — because it places the man’s ego, rather than women’s safety, front and center.
In creating a safer world for all of us, men do well to follow the sensible sort of advice that Starling offers. They also do well to direct more of their efforts towards calling out predatory and sexist behavior in other men, rather than expending tremendous energy trying to earn women’s trust…
But in the end, it’s important for men who do this work to understand that no matter how hard they work, no matter how committed and sincere their efforts, a great many women will continue to view them as potential predators.
In another post, he makes some more great points. He says (again, I suggest reading the entire post) (emphasis mine):
While “innocent until proven guilty” is an excellent guideline for courtroom proceedings, it doesn’t translate nearly as effectively into public life and relations between the sexes. When men complain that women are suspicious of their intentions merely because they are men, they are forcing women into the role of the district attorney, the one shouldered with the burden of proving guilt. In a society where women, rather than men, are overwhelmingly the victims of harassment and assault, those who have suffered most are the ones being asked to lay aside their prior experience and knowledge and approach each new male in their lives with a blank slate, free from judgment. That’s a hell of a weight to ask women to carry, and a hell of a risk to ask them to take, again and again and again.Is it frustrating to be viewed with suspicion merely because of one’s sex? Heck yes. (Is it frustrating to be viewed as a sexual object merely because one is young and female? Ask around.) Men ought to be angry that they need to “prove their harmlessness”. Indeed, they ought to be enraged! But our anger is rightly directed not at women who have been the victims (individually and collectively) of predatory males, but at those men who have “poisoned the well” for everyone else.
There’s more to being a “good guy” than not raping women. Good guys hold themselves and other men accountable, in public and in private.
Those points are much better articulated than I ever could have done myself. I’ve been trying to explain how arguing the “potential rapist” thinking is being part of the problem, instead of part of the solution. This explains how and why that ‘s true. I highly recommend reading through Schwyzer’s archives. They’re amazing. And I will be referring to him in a post or two that I have coming up, as well.
I'm Britni, a snarky bitch and generally awesome person. I write about sex, love, and bullshit. If sex-positivity, discussions about BDSM and kink, queer issues, and topics that are completely inappropriate by society's standards make you uncomfortable, then this blog is not for you.
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12 Comments
This is a brilliant post, Britni – and makes me realise that, to a certain extent, we've been talking at cross purposes.
My problem with 'all men are potential rapists' is that it's an inadequately worded phrase.
I understand, agree and support a women treating every man as if he COULD be a rapist. Not ALL men are rapists, but ANY man could be one. Jeffrey Dahmer disarmed his victims by appearing clean cut and 'the last guy on Earth you'd ever think could be a rapist' and since most rapes are committed by people who know their victims, that's the same situation for the majority of rapes.
So it's sensible for a woman to be defensive around all men men in case this one man turns out to be a rapist.
But not ALL men are rapists, or have the capacity to rape – so instead of saying 'all men are potential rapists' the phrase should be 'any man could be a potential rapist' because it manages to express the fact that a rapist could be any man, but doesn't imply that ALL men are rapists.
I have another problem with the phrase that ties into the whole 'personal responsibility' thing, but that's a post for another day.
You want to know what's funny? Before I posted this, I thought, "Why even bother? He's got his feelings, and this post won't affect them."
Apparently, at least on some level, I was wrong, because the words made enough sense to you to realize that we're trying to make the same point in very different ways.
I have a problem with the wording as well, but probably because I try to come from a "post-" perspective.
Either way you word it (Brit's way or CaB's way), it's "offensive," or more accurately, just not sociologically logical. All people are potential murderers. Etc. You can go on and on with that thinking. But in the long-run, I don't think it does any good.
BUT. The points that both of you make, including Schwyzer, are excellent. I just do not like the phrasing of All X are X at all. It's distracting. We spend more time and energy trying to explain or understand these statements when we could be focusing on the broader picture.
I thought, at first, you said, "Schrödinger's rapist" with would be an amazing allegory for what you are trying to say. Based on "Schrödinger's cat" concept you can assume that men are either/or/both because you don't know them. Until you know them you can't see that fact, in reality it might be either way.
My issue mostly comes when women question your intentions when you are basically helping them and in the process of walking away or they have been friends for several years and get paranoid over something another man did. I need trust in my relationships, but I don't get angry over the situation, I might just question "why" things are this way, but I make a point to distance myself from women who think that way…
On more then one occasion I have seen a woman overly paranoid to the point they cause an innocent guy serious damage to his reputation when nothing was done at all, he simply did something along the lines of returning the credit card she dropped or helped her through issues with her overly abusive boyfriend. Too much positive attention MUST mean he is after ONE THING. Admittedly he might have feelings but that doesn't immediately mean he is going to rape them.
Guys actually run into this more then women would like to admit, hence there is a bit of agitation over the assumption that THEY might be like those other guys. Again I am just repeating my point.
After a few minutes thinking, I think more of the frustration might come from these posts simply explaining that some women see men as potential rapists but very few point out what men can do to counter-act these views… then again that might cause more issues then fix.
SevurdLove brought up some great points and reminded me that an important point that singular line of thinking really misses another huge piece of the puzzle: that in so many ways, men are also victims of Rape Culture, too.
I highly recommend William Pollack's book "Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons from the Myths of Boyhood." From the description, "Pollack has seen behind the stoic masks of troubled, modern boys as they struggle to cope with the mixed messages, conflicting expectations, and increasingly complex demands they receive from our evolving society. 'New research shows that boys are faring less well … that many boys have remarkably fragile self-esteem, and that the rates of both depression and suicide in boys are frighteningly on the rise.'"
I don't think the solution in women pointing out how men can counteract these views, as SevurdLove suggests… but how we as a culture can care for both our young girls AND boys, raising them to see Rape Culture as an antiquated, ridiculous concept, much like segregation of the 1950s.
“men are also victims of Rape Culture” – this is very true. The idea that men are as indoctrinated by the patriarchy as women are is actually one of those dogmatic feminist views.
Oh man, I thought the comments on here were going to cause me all kinds of anxiety again. I'm glad people seem to understand what you meant now.
I'll admit, the "all men are potential rapists" did bug me a little at first but, then again, to *me* any man really could be a rapist.
How do I know the stranger who was looking at me weird wouldn't try to hurt me? How do I know the group of guys that honked and howled at me from their truck, when I was walking alone, weren't going to turn right around and try to hurt me? After hearing horror story after horror story about the police in the lawless small town I live in, how could I trust that a male police officer wouldn't hurt me? How could I trust that my dad, my brothers or my uncles wouldn't hurt me after hearing about friends whose trusted family members sexually abused them? I can't and that's the fucking point I think Britni was trying to make with the "all men are potential rapists" thing.
No, not all men are rapists or ever will be, but we can't know which ones are and which ones aren't. Which men are the good guys who mean us no harm, but might just be a little socially awkward, and which are the bad guys who *do* intend on hurting us? We can't.
As C&B mentioned, Jeffrey Dahmer (and let's not forget Ted Bundy, who used a similar approach when luring in young women) looked like a "normal guy" but he was anything but. How do I know whether the strange man I meet while walking alone is a Ted Bundy or just a random guy who happened to be walking in the same direction as me?
I also don't doubt at all that men are victims of Rape Culture, as Jillinois said. A culture such as this isn't good for anyone, male or female.
"You want to know what's funny? Before I posted this, I thought, "Why even bother? He's got his feelings, and this post won't affect them.""
Oh wow am I glad you did post it, Britni. I got a total breakthrough on this too.
If I can just try it out for a second it goes something like this:
1) The overt obstacle for men… even more so for progressive ones… is that to acknowledge being seen as a potential rapist goes against everything we're taught to believe as Americans, as progressives, etc., about the evils of stereotyping and blanket oppression of members of a class.
2) The covert obstacle for men is that the accusation blends seamlessly with the way we perceive ourselves anyway — it's just one more obstacle we believe we have to "seduce" our way through anyway if we want to be in any sort of relationship with women at all (not just sexual ones!)
3) Consequently the grammar of all "but I'm an exception, I'm not a rapist" is identical to every other attempt to form a heterosexual relationship, with the additional and particularly nettlesome layer for men of "well great, not only do I now have to demonstrate first that I'm not a loser and second that I'm not a cad but also third that I'm also not a class-one felon."
4) In other words minus the perceived criminal allegations the entire relational interactions take place on ground heterosexuals have already worn into deep, familiar ruts.
5) The problem with all "but I'm not a rapist" arguments is there's a tacit "unlike all the others who probably are."
6) And the problem with number five is that the tacit sentence has another clause: "… but I nevertheless feel no obligation to do anything about."
There's a lot more that's shaking out of this for me. I'll have to think about it. A lot.
Thanks, Britni!
p.s. another thing that shakes out, it occurs to me, is you know how men tend to value a relationship in proportion to how hard he thinks he has to work for it? To the extent that's true he's going to be personally frustrated by the additional layer of mistrust but… he's going to feel more "worthy" if he can "win" a woman over in spite of that. Not a good dynamic. I've definitely got to think about this more.
I agree with the sentiment that's been expressed that men are victims of this rape culture, too. In fact, I have a post in the works about it. But men are very often taught that women's sexuality is theirs to take, and that coercion, guilt, lubricating with alcohol, etc are acceptable ways to get a woman into bed. They're also taught that "no means no," but they're never taught that in the absence of an explicit "no," there are other signs that mean "no." Batting your hand away, giggling uncomfortably, etc. But because it's not a "no," many men keep trying, and these men unwittingly become rapists or predators, because they're raised in a culture that teaches them that these are acceptable mechanisms to use to get what they want from women.
"But men are very often taught that women's sexuality is theirs to take, and that coercion, guilt, lubricating with alcohol, etc are acceptable ways to get a woman into bed."
But this is one way men ARE victims of Rape Culture. In the same way a child is taught to kill as a child solider in Sudan, for example. They may grow up to commit atrocities but they are also victims of their upbringing. The way to fix it is to fix the upbringing.
Yes, Jill, I agree. That was the point I was trying to make in the comments, but the word "but" seemed to throw that off.