I’ve discussed coercive rape on this blog before, and that I think that men are victims when it comes to how we teach consent just as much as women are. I think that the way we talk about consent makes rapists out of men that would not otherwise be rapists. And I had an experience the other night that clearly reflected that*. I also realized that my reaction to it was very different than it would have been a few years ago, and it was probably different than many girls’ would have been now.
I had very awesome, very consensual sex with a guy. The next morning, I had somewhere to be. We had lazy morning sex a few hours before I had to get up, but we were both tired and fell back asleep. As I was getting up, Guy was hard. He made comments that I blew off at first, but after a while began to make me mad. “Come back!’ “Look what you did!” “You made it like this so you have to take care of it!”
And that’s where I went from being cute about the fact that I had to leave to angry. I’d only met this guy the night before. But even still, do NOT tell me that it’s somehow my responsibility to take care of your boner. Or because I’d fucked you once or twice that I’m OBLIGATED to fuck you again. OH HELL NO. So I tried to play it off, since we didn’t really know each other, and said, “I have to go, you have a hand. Take care of it yourself.”
“It’s not the same,” he said. “Sex is so much better!” “Come on!” “You could just even kiss it and I’d have that in my mind while I finished myself!” At this point, I’m beyond angry and turned off. My head is screaming, “coercive rape!” A shame, really, because I had enjoyed his company and the sex after the good company, but his behavior was such a turn off. And as I walked away, I thought to myself, “Just a few years ago, before I had the confidence and education that I have now, I probably would have given in to that.” And it’s true. I would have felt that I *did* owe him something because I’d slept with him the night before. I would have felt bad when he whined. And so would so many other girls. I’m glad I know enough to walk out of the room and not think twice about it, but how many other girls don’t? How many other girls would give that blow job because they felt obligated somehow?
A lot. And not that long ago, I would have been one of those girls. And I now know that his pushiness is a pattern, as I got a text asking for a naked picture of me. We’ve slept together once. Again, when I was younger, more insecure, and more vulnerable, I may have been fairly easily persuaded to send that picture.
Not today. Pushy will get you nowhere. I’ll give what I want to give. End of story. I have been a victim of coercive rape too many times. Not again.
*I will address this in a separate post, because it deserves it.
I'm Britni, a snarky bitch and generally awesome person. I write about sex, love, and bullshit. If sex-positivity, discussions about BDSM and kink, queer issues, and topics that are completely inappropriate by society's standards make you uncomfortable, then this blog is not for you.
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27 Comments
I can definitely relate to this and your response. I *dated* someone who was like this, going so far as to say that by way of being in a relationship we were both obligated to put out whenever the other person wanted it…That conversation was the end of our relationship. I don’t understand how men come to think these things. And, I hate that as a younger woman I was often so eager to please that I’d just give in to try and keep everything copacetic.
The concept of coercive rape is something that I wish was taught in schools. We’re taught that force and lack of consent are rape, but we aren’t told that some dude begging and trying to be cutesy can also turn into rape. People think of rape as always violent and clear-cut, but it’s not…
Please, don’t think I’m trying to be judgemental or anything, I am just curious… I wonder what would have happened had you (or any other person being coerced in such a manner) just calmly turned around and explained why and how this was wrong. Because, like you said, men are victims to this problem too.
Trust me, I considered saying something, and in the past I have. However, I was in a rush and did not know this guy well. And it’s unfortunate that because of that, I didn’t feel comfortable doing so. I was worried about the reaction of, “You’re overreacting!” or him getting really defensive. For as open as I am about this stuff, there are still times when I fear the reaction I would get were I to say something. Which is sad, but not unique to me.
This is what horney twenty-somethings do when they get together. They phuque, and phuque, and then want to fuck some more.
The entire basis of your relationship was physical. You make that clear. You get offended when he wanted to do it some more? You don’t even know him; you know only his dick. Don’t be offended when he just wants to do that some more with you; that’s the entire basis of your interface. Frankly, IMHO, it’s a compliment to your prior actions.
He didn’t put hands on you. He didn’t threaten you. He didn’t use extortion, or blackmail, or anything, other than to repeatedly tell you that he wants to go on phuquing you the way you had done.
Your definition of rape– even of “coercive rape,” is sorely in need of re-evaluation.
Frankly, so does your lifestyle.
False. I said, “NO.” That should have been the end of his begging and pleading and coercion. Period. Whether I fucked him the night before or not, when I say, “no,” that’s the end of it.
And I think it’s *your* definition of rape that’s sorely in need of re-evaluation.
Don’t like my lifestyle? Don’t read my blog. I think my lifestyle is perfectly acceptable.
Stand by, hold on, hold the phone:
DID YOU end up having sex with him?
Your argument might be [very] slightly stronger, then.
Did I have sex with this guy? NO. Have I been coerced into sex with other people in this exact same way? YES. If I was younger and more insecure and naive would I have given into this guy? YES.
However, whether or not I had sex with him is beside the point, which you’re clearly missing. The point is how many guys think it’s okay to keep pushing and pushing and begging and guilt-tripping and coercing until the girl gives in. And how many girls do give in because we feel like we have no choice because we went home with them/had sex with them last night/must have given them the wrong idea/will be raped forcibly if we don’t acquiesce.
By continuing to argue with us and disprove us and show us why we have no right to feel violated or why we weren’t violated, you’re being a rape apologist. Period. End of story. And at this point, this thread has been dead a long time, and any more from you on it will be deleted, no questions asked.
Get your head out of your ass and stop being such a misogynist and actually LISTEN to the MULTIPLE women on this thread saying that a) this is common, b) this has happened to them, and c) THEY FELT VIOLATED BY IT. Because you have no right to tell someone else how a situation should have made them feel. You don’t get to define what is and is not violating. Only the victim does.
The fact that he wanted to fuck more isn’t the issue; the issue is that he felt the need to beg and whine and wheedle and push and act like an all-around douche about it- after she repeatedly told him no. That’s called harassment, and it IS offensive, just like your ignorance and attitude are.
What a ridiculous, entitled, arrogant, and just plain incorrect point of view “G” is coming out with. That attitude is so far from a healthy view of sex and one night stands that I truly pity anyone misfortunate enough to come into sexual contact with him.
Grow up “G”.
This is what horney twenty-somethings do when they get together.
No it isn’t. No guy I’ve ever been with has done it. I don’t have some superpower that makes me choose only the best guys on the planet, either. You’re telling yourself coercive rape is the norm just to try to make yourself feel better. It’s transparent and pathetic.
I think your lifestyle is the one in need of evaluation. Ignorance is not a valid lifestyle choice.
*sigh*
Do I need to get out ANOTHER glass of antifreeze? It seems like apologists never fucking learn.
At this point, you should start buying antifreeze in bulk. Or buy some antifreeze company stock.
***
Brit, this was a great post. Thank you for sharing something so incredibly fucked up.
No, G, again this is not what “horney” 20-somethings do when they have ANY sort of relationship, be it fucking or not.
Look up the definition of consent, reevaluate your logic (oh wait, you’re probably too stupid to even know that is, considering you can’t even spell fuck right), then come back and tell someone what coercive rape. Because when someone says no, to any sort of sex or non-sex it means NO. If you disagree this makes you a rape apologist and you can kindly fuck off with the rest of them. Thanks.
Sooooo many times this has played out for me. Thankfully, not for years, and certainly never again. I was just telling someone the other day that I had been coerced several times into sex, thought it’d never “hold up in court.” Sad that anyone ever even doubts their own gut like that to begin with.
Here’s to education and maturity.
what coercive rape is.* Whoops.
Really, how difficult is it to understand the word NO and the word CONSENT. Two teensy words that make such a fucking difference. Sorry for so many comments Brit, I just can’t fucking comprehend some people.
I’m seeing this from a new perspective.
Previously, I merely thought whiney boys like this were fucking wimps. Now, I can see that they are so much worse.
You’re right. When you said “No”, it was over. No is no. How fucking hard is that to understand?
You demean true victims of rape when you use the term “coercive rape” the way you do, here.
I absolutely stand with a victim of rape who told her (or his, occasionally) spouse “No,” but the spouse went ahead.
I absolutely stand with the victim who had earlier conducted extensive sexual activity with the actor, but who was later not able to give consent due to intoxication or other loss of normal consciousness, when the actor sexually assaulted her.
I stand with a victim who was coerced by their boss, or their family member, or a blackmailer, or someone who held something over their head. But in this case, you’re equating a whiney young adult who harrasses you (admittedly annoyingly) for more sex as being “coercive rape.”
I hope you post this comment. I hope that you will keep it up and read it in ten years. I hope that you can be honest with yourself.
My prior comment about your lifestyle wasn’t a condemnation of the poly life, or of large numbers of sex partners, for what it’s worth.
So now you’re going to play the “who counts as a REAL rape victim” game? It’s not up to you to decide what counts as rape and what doesn’t. There’s nothing demeaning about recognizing that applying pressure on someone to have sex constitutes coercion. The fact that such coercion exists IS demeaning to the people who are subjected to it. It’s a part of rape culture, and it forms a large part of the foundation of the icky mess that leads to people excusing other types of rape by suggesting that sex can be owed (again, a fundamental part of rape culture). The fact that there isn’t a strong enough narrative in our society to tell people it’s never okay to pressure someone to have sex and that nobody ever owes sex means that this is a legitimate and serious problem that results in sex without true consent (giving in because you think you have to is NOT true consent by any means), which is rape. By saying that it doesn’t count as rape, you are being a rape apologist. You can say otherwise until you’re red in the face, but that doesn’t make it any less true, and it certainly doesn’t help anyone. If you don’t understand what rape culture is, which seems rather likely considering what you’ve said, please educate yourself on the matter before commenting further.
Instead of telling victims that it wasn’t real because saying “no” just once isn’t enough, we should be telling the aggressors that the only acceptable thing to do is to LISTEN to that first “no”, accept it, and not try to make the person think they owe sex or are obligated in any way. Anything less than that is a failure to respect the other person’s right to bodily autonomy.
You seriously just pulled out the “real victims of rape” card. I’m laughing too hard at you to even be offended.
“True victims of rape,” really? Why don’t you go crawl back into the hole you came out of? I don’t want to repeat everything Eve just said, but obviously YOU are not educated on what constitutes rape and rape culture, G.
Learn the facts before you argue.
If she did not want to give a blowjob, she does not have to, nor she should she have felt obliged to. No means no, period. Whining, blackmail, and acting like a 5 year old to get someone who does not want to have sex with you to have sex with you is coercive rape. Period. Gray rape is having sex because you feel obligated WHEN YOU DON’T FUCKING WANT TO. Rape is not something black and white so stop looking at it that way. And please, stop insulting rape victims with ad hominem arguments and your bullshit. Thanks.
Ever met coerced rape victims? I have.
Crack addict who has no money. Her landlord, thought by most to be a decent guy in the community, gives her an option: give him sex, or pack up her kids and get out.
Girl who is in trouble with her parents. Boyfriend knows that she will get in more trouble if she makes enough fuss to say No, because she let him in the room voluntarily. She submits to his sexual acts because she is afraid of the trouble she’ll catch from her parents. She didn’t want to. She was just lonely.
Little girl. Bigger boy playmate talks her into dropping her panties. She does. He then claims he’ll tell if she doesn’t let him finger her vagina.
Nice girl. Virgin. Meets a boy online. Gets in a wreck in her parents’ car on the way over there, where she wasn’t supposed to be. Doesn’t want to go home to face the music, so she lets the boy pick her up. Lets herself be harrangued into taking a drink. Then lets herself be harrangued into getting partially nude in a tent with him. Wakes up in the morning, not sure what happened, but has some Bad flashes of memories, of things she didn’t authorize. (Frankly, this is simple, unadulterated RAPE, but she was coerced into giving up her consciousness.)
I’ve seen honest to God Coercive Rape.
Your claims that last night’s bed partner’s pleads for another tumble just don’t really make the grade as Coercive Rape.
Any more comments from you will be deleted because you’re clearly a moron and I don’t tolerate rape apology in any form on this blog. Take your bullshit elsewhere. I’ve let you spew ignorance long enough.
Honestly, you have no right to be the judge of what is and isn’t rape.
Living a sexual lifestyle does not mean you are exempt from rape, coercive or otherwise. You weren’t there, obviously and there is no “honest to god” victim of rape. If you did not want to submit to a sexual act and you were forced to submit to one, felt you had to or felt obliged to submit to any sexual act that is rape. Unless enthusiastic consent is given, it is rape. Period. You have no right to decide who is and who isn’t a rape or sexual assault victim. Let the people who actually have been victimized decide that, because it’s people like you who contribute to rape culture and allow our society to be so accepting of rape as a “victim’s fault” crime.
I’m pretty disappointed to see that you’re unwilling to have a reasonable debate or conversation (educational for everyone – you, your readers, “G”) with someone who disagrees with you.
G’s language has been articulate and reasonable, while most other comments directed toward G have been aggressive, insulting and name-calling.
Is the point of your blog to get people together who think the same way and want to keep doing so…unthinkingly?
It makes sense to block a troll, but that’s not what “G” was doing. He/she was making legitimate criticism of your argument. And that criticism was never addressed, by the way, outside of the “world” of the concept of “rape culture.”
The argument that this is “coercive rape” might be easily defended if you’re wrapped in an identity that prevents you from criticizing your own language (because if you do, well, you’re an “apologist” and deserve to be pilloried).
From the outside, though, it’s more interesting to think about it without labels.
For me — and I guess I’m a rape apologist in this case, and a female one too which probably makes it worse — this is an example of someone being a whiny jerk, and is not that different from someone being a whiny jerk about something else — e.g. “why don’t you ever buy me flowers?” and “Don’t you love me?” or “If only you loved me, you’d….”
I think it obscures the issue, doesn’t clarify it, to call this “rape.” It’s great to go out and education people about this concept “rape culture,” and this line I found particularly interesting: “there isn’t a strong enough narrative in our society to tell people it’s never okay to pressure someone to have sex and that nobody ever owes sex .” But it would be healthier to discuss this in relation to coercion of all kinds, not only sexual. And by labeling it “rape,” that conversation can’t happen, because the word “rape” ultimately loses its meaning.
Thank you for this post, and for all the posts you write on rape, even though you *always* have commenters who get angry with you for them.
Getting this out there is *so important*.