Comments on: Pushy

By: Britni TheVadgeWig

Britni TheVadgeWig — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:50:45 +0000

Did I have sex with this guy? NO. Have I been coerced into sex with other people in this exact same way? YES. If I was younger and more insecure and naive would I have given into this guy? YES.

However, whether or not I had sex with him is beside the point, which you’re clearly missing. The point is how many guys think it’s okay to keep pushing and pushing and begging and guilt-tripping and coercing until the girl gives in. And how many girls do give in because we feel like we have no choice because we went home with them/had sex with them last night/must have given them the wrong idea/will be raped forcibly if we don’t acquiesce.

By continuing to argue with us and disprove us and show us why we have no right to feel violated or why we weren’t violated, you’re being a rape apologist. Period. End of story. And at this point, this thread has been dead a long time, and any more from you on it will be deleted, no questions asked.

Get your head out of your ass and stop being such a misogynist and actually LISTEN to the MULTIPLE women on this thread saying that a) this is common, b) this has happened to them, and c) THEY FELT VIOLATED BY IT. Because you have no right to tell someone else how a situation should have made them feel. You don’t get to define what is and is not violating. Only the victim does.

By: G

Wed, 27 Oct 2010 04:28:18 +0000

Stand by, hold on, hold the phone:

DID YOU end up having sex with him?

Your argument might be [very] slightly stronger, then.

By: alphafemme

alphafemme — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 05:17:35 +0000

Thank you for this post, and for all the posts you write on rape, even though you *always* have commenters who get angry with you for them.

Getting this out there is *so important*.

By: Elephant

Elephant — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:55:59 +0000

I’m pretty disappointed to see that you’re unwilling to have a reasonable debate or conversation (educational for everyone – you, your readers, “G”) with someone who disagrees with you.
G’s language has been articulate and reasonable, while most other comments directed toward G have been aggressive, insulting and name-calling.
Is the point of your blog to get people together who think the same way and want to keep doing so…unthinkingly?
It makes sense to block a troll, but that’s not what “G” was doing. He/she was making legitimate criticism of your argument. And that criticism was never addressed, by the way, outside of the “world” of the concept of “rape culture.”
The argument that this is “coercive rape” might be easily defended if you’re wrapped in an identity that prevents you from criticizing your own language (because if you do, well, you’re an “apologist” and deserve to be pilloried).
From the outside, though, it’s more interesting to think about it without labels.

For me — and I guess I’m a rape apologist in this case, and a female one too which probably makes it worse — this is an example of someone being a whiny jerk, and is not that different from someone being a whiny jerk about something else — e.g. “why don’t you ever buy me flowers?” and “Don’t you love me?” or “If only you loved me, you’d….”
I think it obscures the issue, doesn’t clarify it, to call this “rape.” It’s great to go out and education people about this concept “rape culture,” and this line I found particularly interesting: “there isn’t a strong enough narrative in our society to tell people it’s never okay to pressure someone to have sex and that nobody ever owes sex .” But it would be healthier to discuss this in relation to coercion of all kinds, not only sexual. And by labeling it “rape,” that conversation can’t happen, because the word “rape” ultimately loses its meaning.

By: MoonshineLove

MoonshineLove — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:49:45 +0000

Honestly, you have no right to be the judge of what is and isn’t rape.
Living a sexual lifestyle does not mean you are exempt from rape, coercive or otherwise. You weren’t there, obviously and there is no “honest to god” victim of rape. If you did not want to submit to a sexual act and you were forced to submit to one, felt you had to or felt obliged to submit to any sexual act that is rape. Unless enthusiastic consent is given, it is rape. Period. You have no right to decide who is and who isn’t a rape or sexual assault victim. Let the people who actually have been victimized decide that, because it’s people like you who contribute to rape culture and allow our society to be so accepting of rape as a “victim’s fault” crime.

By: Britni TheVadgeWig

Britni TheVadgeWig — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:26:47 +0000

Any more comments from you will be deleted because you’re clearly a moron and I don’t tolerate rape apology in any form on this blog. Take your bullshit elsewhere. I’ve let you spew ignorance long enough.

By: G

Thu, 09 Sep 2010 03:38:12 +0000

Ever met coerced rape victims? I have.

Crack addict who has no money. Her landlord, thought by most to be a decent guy in the community, gives her an option: give him sex, or pack up her kids and get out.

Girl who is in trouble with her parents. Boyfriend knows that she will get in more trouble if she makes enough fuss to say No, because she let him in the room voluntarily. She submits to his sexual acts because she is afraid of the trouble she’ll catch from her parents. She didn’t want to. She was just lonely.

Little girl. Bigger boy playmate talks her into dropping her panties. She does. He then claims he’ll tell if she doesn’t let him finger her vagina.

Nice girl. Virgin. Meets a boy online. Gets in a wreck in her parents’ car on the way over there, where she wasn’t supposed to be. Doesn’t want to go home to face the music, so she lets the boy pick her up. Lets herself be harrangued into taking a drink. Then lets herself be harrangued into getting partially nude in a tent with him. Wakes up in the morning, not sure what happened, but has some Bad flashes of memories, of things she didn’t authorize. (Frankly, this is simple, unadulterated RAPE, but she was coerced into giving up her consciousness.)

I’ve seen honest to God Coercive Rape.

Your claims that last night’s bed partner’s pleads for another tumble just don’t really make the grade as Coercive Rape.

By: MoonshineLove

MoonshineLove — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:58:54 +0000

“True victims of rape,” really? Why don’t you go crawl back into the hole you came out of? I don’t want to repeat everything Eve just said, but obviously YOU are not educated on what constitutes rape and rape culture, G.
Learn the facts before you argue.

If she did not want to give a blowjob, she does not have to, nor she should she have felt obliged to. No means no, period. Whining, blackmail, and acting like a 5 year old to get someone who does not want to have sex with you to have sex with you is coercive rape. Period. Gray rape is having sex because you feel obligated WHEN YOU DON’T FUCKING WANT TO. Rape is not something black and white so stop looking at it that way. And please, stop insulting rape victims with ad hominem arguments and your bullshit. Thanks.

By: Elodie

Elodie — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:15:01 +0000

You seriously just pulled out the “real victims of rape” card. I’m laughing too hard at you to even be offended.

By: Eve

Eve — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:03:57 +0000

So now you’re going to play the “who counts as a REAL rape victim” game? It’s not up to you to decide what counts as rape and what doesn’t. There’s nothing demeaning about recognizing that applying pressure on someone to have sex constitutes coercion. The fact that such coercion exists IS demeaning to the people who are subjected to it. It’s a part of rape culture, and it forms a large part of the foundation of the icky mess that leads to people excusing other types of rape by suggesting that sex can be owed (again, a fundamental part of rape culture). The fact that there isn’t a strong enough narrative in our society to tell people it’s never okay to pressure someone to have sex and that nobody ever owes sex means that this is a legitimate and serious problem that results in sex without true consent (giving in because you think you have to is NOT true consent by any means), which is rape. By saying that it doesn’t count as rape, you are being a rape apologist. You can say otherwise until you’re red in the face, but that doesn’t make it any less true, and it certainly doesn’t help anyone. If you don’t understand what rape culture is, which seems rather likely considering what you’ve said, please educate yourself on the matter before commenting further.

Instead of telling victims that it wasn’t real because saying “no” just once isn’t enough, we should be telling the aggressors that the only acceptable thing to do is to LISTEN to that first “no”, accept it, and not try to make the person think they owe sex or are obligated in any way. Anything less than that is a failure to respect the other person’s right to bodily autonomy.