Comments on: Soap Boxing http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/ I'm nothing but a brash and impetuous girl striving to be true to myself while searching for somewhere to belong, someone to love, and a better version of me. Thu, 18 Nov 2010 02:47:46 +0000 hourly 1 By: April http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-592 April Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:58:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-592 I agree with you, Britini. I do not understand why people are so against it. If they're not gay, then gay marriage does not effect them in any way shape or form. I don't see why people are fighting so hard against it. They should put their energy into more useful things like bringing our troops home safely or curing cancer. Leave the happy gay couples alone! I agree with you, Britini. I do not understand why people are so against it. If they're not gay, then gay marriage does not effect them in any way shape or form. I don't see why people are fighting so hard against it. They should put their energy into more useful things like bringing our troops home safely or curing cancer. Leave the happy gay couples alone!

]]> By: Apollo Unchained http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-589 Apollo Unchained Mon, 27 Oct 2008 05:12:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-589 Promo, no worries at all, and I do appreciate your kind follow-up.<br /><br />And your initial comment was also another reminder that many folks are not only suffering real pain over this issue, but they're also mad as hell about it and don't see what the problem is. Promo, no worries at all, and I do appreciate your kind follow-up.

And your initial comment was also another reminder that many folks are not only suffering real pain over this issue, but they're also mad as hell about it and don't see what the problem is.

]]> By: The Promo Homo http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-588 The Promo Homo Mon, 27 Oct 2008 04:39:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-588 Apollo: <br /><br />Fair enough. Sorry if my response seemed attacking at all. It wasn't meant to be. I wrote the response on my phone since my internet went out at home, so it was a little more short than I'd have liked.<br /><br />I'm glad we have your vote and that you changed your mind on the topic :) Apollo:

Fair enough. Sorry if my response seemed attacking at all. It wasn't meant to be. I wrote the response on my phone since my internet went out at home, so it was a little more short than I'd have liked.

I'm glad we have your vote and that you changed your mind on the topic :)

]]> By: La Roo http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-587 La Roo Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:35:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-587 no on 8 for me, definitely. no on 8 for me, definitely.

]]> By: Apollo Unchained http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-585 Apollo Unchained Sun, 26 Oct 2008 02:12:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-585 Promo, I intentionally didn't attempt to present any other sides of the argument -- it's well represented elsewhere on the web, much better than I could do, who no longer agree with it. My point was that it self-evidently exists, and is widely held. In general, to dismiss the other side as brainless idiots is not conducive to dialogue, understanding and persuasion.<br /><br />More importantly, my main point is that the human element outweighs any of the intellectual arguments I've heard. The happily married same-sex couples are the real argument. The rest, while interesting, turns out to be bullshit in comparison. That's why I say that Britni's post is "a campaign message more compelling than any political argument." Promo, I intentionally didn't attempt to present any other sides of the argument — it's well represented elsewhere on the web, much better than I could do, who no longer agree with it. My point was that it self-evidently exists, and is widely held. In general, to dismiss the other side as brainless idiots is not conducive to dialogue, understanding and persuasion.

More importantly, my main point is that the human element outweighs any of the intellectual arguments I've heard. The happily married same-sex couples are the real argument. The rest, while interesting, turns out to be bullshit in comparison. That's why I say that Britni's post is "a campaign message more compelling than any political argument."

]]> By: The Promo Homo http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-584 The Promo Homo Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:25:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-584 Apollo: please, do share what the train of thought would be on the other side, since you said you can understand it. <br /><br />I can only think of those folks either being homophobic or they cannot seperate church and state. If there is more... Do tell. <br /><br />It's very much a no brainer. This county was founded to escape religious persecution and it's bullshit, yet those people and their silly books dictate how I can live my life? Yeah. I don't get it. Apollo: please, do share what the train of thought would be on the other side, since you said you can understand it.

I can only think of those folks either being homophobic or they cannot seperate church and state. If there is more… Do tell.

It's very much a no brainer. This county was founded to escape religious persecution and it's bullshit, yet those people and their silly books dictate how I can live my life? Yeah. I don't get it.

]]> By: Apollo Unchained http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-583 Apollo Unchained Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:38:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-583 I am going to vote no on Prop 8 in California, but this represents a change in my thinking over the past ten years or so. So I can certainly see both sides of the issue and I don't think it's helpful to treat it as a no-brainer on either side. If it was simple it would not have taken a highly controversial split (4-3) court decision to legalize it in the first place, and it would not be on the ballot now.<br /><br />A "no" vote will go a long way toward settling the issue so I am inclined to see this ballot measure as a good thing, especially in light of the previous history with Prop 22, passed by the voters in 2000. Prop 22 is the law which was struck down by the court in May, thereby legalizing gay marriage. I personally am dubious of the State Supreme Court's right to decide this important question -- I think it should have been legislated (Gov Schwarzenegger vetoed two bills to do so) or passed as a ballot measure (in effect repealing Prop 22) in the first place. <br /><br />And my understanding is that it cannot actually annul or reverse the marriages already in place. However it would mean that the state of california would no longer "recognize" such marriages, meaning they would have to rely on domestic partner legislation for tax and legal consequences.<br /><br />To me, one of the strongest statements in favor of gay marriage has been the happy faces of couples getting married. So Britni, I think you hit the nail on the head with these images. It's a campaign message more compelling than any political argument. I am going to vote no on Prop 8 in California, but this represents a change in my thinking over the past ten years or so. So I can certainly see both sides of the issue and I don't think it's helpful to treat it as a no-brainer on either side. If it was simple it would not have taken a highly controversial split (4-3) court decision to legalize it in the first place, and it would not be on the ballot now.

A "no" vote will go a long way toward settling the issue so I am inclined to see this ballot measure as a good thing, especially in light of the previous history with Prop 22, passed by the voters in 2000. Prop 22 is the law which was struck down by the court in May, thereby legalizing gay marriage. I personally am dubious of the State Supreme Court's right to decide this important question — I think it should have been legislated (Gov Schwarzenegger vetoed two bills to do so) or passed as a ballot measure (in effect repealing Prop 22) in the first place.

And my understanding is that it cannot actually annul or reverse the marriages already in place. However it would mean that the state of california would no longer "recognize" such marriages, meaning they would have to rely on domestic partner legislation for tax and legal consequences.

To me, one of the strongest statements in favor of gay marriage has been the happy faces of couples getting married. So Britni, I think you hit the nail on the head with these images. It's a campaign message more compelling than any political argument.

]]> By: Britni TheVadgeWig http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-582 Britni TheVadgeWig Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:46:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-582 Twg: Those old ladies have been together over 55 years and were the first legally married in California! They were huge lesbian and gay activists and huge in the community. Del Martin (the darker haired woman) just died, but at least she got legally married before it happened. :)<br /><br />They are amazing, amazing people. Look into them.<br /><br />http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/10/8against8-del-martin-phyllis-lyon/ Twg: Those old ladies have been together over 55 years and were the first legally married in California! They were huge lesbian and gay activists and huge in the community. Del Martin (the darker haired woman) just died, but at least she got legally married before it happened. :)

They are amazing, amazing people. Look into them.

http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/10/8against8-del-martin-phyllis-lyon/

]]> By: The Promo Homo http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-581 The Promo Homo Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:21:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-581 TWG: YEs, they will reverse the marriages that happened already. TWG: YEs, they will reverse the marriages that happened already.

]]> By: twg http://britisshameless.com/2008/10/soap-boxing/comment-page-1/#comment-580 twg Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:02:00 +0000 http://britisshameless.com/?p=297#comment-580 Aw, the old old ladies are so cute. Will a ban actually delegitimize those who are already married? Do laws work retroactively like that? I don't know. I can't deal with people who are against this, honestly. As Jon Stewart put it, "Are they going to MAKE us marry gays? No? Then what's the big deal." It was something like that. Aw, the old old ladies are so cute. Will a ban actually delegitimize those who are already married? Do laws work retroactively like that? I don't know. I can't deal with people who are against this, honestly. As Jon Stewart put it, "Are they going to MAKE us marry gays? No? Then what's the big deal." It was something like that.

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